Monsoon's Exclusive Interview with Five Guys' Molly Catalano

My friends,

A few months ago, I posted a review of Five Guys Burgers and Fries and contacted its corporate headquarters to let them know just how much I loved them. I began an email correspondence with Molly Catalano, who is the Public Relations Manager for Five Guys. Soon I had compiled a list of questions for Ms. Catalano and asked if she would consent to an email interview; she delighted me by answering the questions generously and thoroughly.

I am now proud to present these questions (MM) and Molly Catalano’s answers (MC) exclusively and without commercial interruption here on Monsoon’s weblog!

MM: I read that Five Guys has tried various additions to its menu in the past, but ultimately decided to pull these items. Can you discuss a few of these ideas?

MC: The menu originally included a Virginia baked ham sandwich and there is a rumor that they tried a chicken sandwich for one day. This was well before we started franchising and the menu has been the same for at least the past 10-15 years. We get many requests for chili and slaw in the south and sauerkraut in the north, but we will only add to our menu if we know it was the best item possible.

MM: Can you talk a little bit about Five Guys’ interior design? What is the intended effect of having fifty-pound bags of potatoes between the ordering and dining areas?

MC: The basic idea for the décor is to make sure that nothing takes attention away from the food. So it makes sense that we have an open kitchen; our cooking process is the décor! This way, we don’t have to talk about ourselves (hence the articles and quotes from others on the walls) and we don’t even have to tell you what we serve…you see it when you walk in.

Also, with our stacks of potatoes and boxes of peanut oil, along with our open kitchen, we can show guests that we are in fact making everything fresh.

MM: Have you thought about expanding your beverage and treat offerings to include milkshakes, light desserts, and the like?

MC: Besides the chili and sauerkraut, milkshakes are the third most requested item. We love milkshakes, but at this point we don’t think that we could serve the best milkshakes possible without sacrificing quality elsewhere…and we aren’t willing to do that.

MM: It has been reported that Five Guys was pursued for years by individuals who wanted to purchase franchises, but repeatedly turned them down. Can you briefly discuss why Five Guys rejected franchising offers for so long, and why Five Guys ultimately decided to franchise?

MC: The Murrells—especially the father, Jerry—didn’t want to franchise. I don’t know his exact reasoning, but I think things were going well and at the time it didn’t appeal to him. However, the boys were ultimately the ones who decided to franchise and they have done a great job focusing on what is important and not giving in to pressures to change. At the same time, we have learned a lot from our franchisees and I would say that our stores are more consistent now than ever before. Even small changes like our black ceilings and higher quality red countertops came from our franchisees.

MM: Given Five Guys’ unconventional business model, limited menu and untraditional practices, has the company faced any difficulties in attracting investors or selling franchises?

MC: Not at all. In the end, there is a reason behind everything that we do, from the way we cook our fries to the way we change our gloves, and people understand that. We do not advertise for franchisees and franchise inquiries are the highest volume of emails and calls we receive.

MM: I find the construction of your burgers to be artful and ingenious; can you discuss their assembly a bit? For example, why was it decided to put the bacon underneath the patties rather than on top, as is traditionally done?

MC: The assembly, as you may have noticed, is very finely tuned. This, especially, is the area of the business that the “boys” (the Five Guys) perfected in the 15 years before they opened. The assembly is the result of a desire to give optimal flavor combinations while encouraging speed in assembling the burger. With so many toppings, each burger is unique, so we have to have a method to the madness in order to make sure we don’t forget toppings!

MM: The Murrell family’s involvement in the Five Guys business is storied: to what extent is each of the Murrells’ five sons still involved in the business?

MC: All seven (Jerry, Janie, Jim, Matt, Chad, Ben and Tyler) family members are involved in different ways. Ben focuses on franchise development and meets with each franchisee candidate. Chad focuses on training operations. Matt focuses on operations and development, Tyler works with the bakery and Jim focuses on corporate-owned stores.

MM: What is involved, financially and logistically, in securing and setting up a franchised location of Five Guys?

MC: Five Guys sells exclusive territories to franchisees. A franchisee must purchase a territory with a minimum of 5 locations, but many of our franchisees purchase the rights to open much more than that. A franchisee pays a franchise fee for each location and then pays to develop the specific sites once they find them. So a franchisee really does it all: decides where he/she wants to open locations (generally), selects specific sites (with approval from Five Guys) builds out the store, and then opens and runs it. Five Guys provides training and support along the way and throughout their life as a franchisee.

MM: Five Guys reportedly conducts very little, if any, advertising. What is the reasoning behind this strategy, and how successful has it been?

MC: You are correct: Five Guys does not spend ANY national or corporate funds on advertising. We do allow our franchisees to advertise (with approval), so there are a few local items out there. The reasoning is based both on economics and our brand. We want to be known for a great hamburger and great fries and the best form of marketing to do that is word of mouth, so we focus on that. We know that word of mouth is the most effective form of marketing, so we focus on making sure people want to talk about us because they love our burgers and fries!

Additionally, to really compete with others using advertising, you need a lot of money and we believe that we currently get the biggest bang for our buck by providing a very large employee incentive program and by word of mouth. We believe this is successful…or we wouldn’t be here now! Additionally, our new stores open with stronger and stronger sales!

MM: How involved is the Five Guys corporate structure in the day-to-day operations of its franchise locations?

MC: Our franchisees, managers, assistant managers and crew-level employees run the true day-to-day operations. Five Guys Enterprises is involved through our District Manager program. We have District Managers who over see about 15 stores each, and they act as the liaison between franchisees and corporate. They are there to help make our franchisees successful and to protect the Five Guys brand.

MM: Have you considered adding a drive-through element to the Five Guys stores?

MC: We have opened a few locations in buildings that have drive-throughs, but we can only use them as call-ahead pickup windows. This is because it takes about 7-10 minutes for us to prepare an order and that is not fast enough for a drive through.

MM: Your pickles are heaven. How are they made and where are they from?

MC: I agree! Our pickles, like all of our toppings, are specially selected. They are Mount Olive brand kosher pickles. The “boys” (the Five Guys) are fanatical about the quality of our toppings. For example, our current mayo producer is going to stop producing the kind of mayo we use and as a result we are going to privately label mayo for our use because the boys think that this mayo has the right level of creaminess and taste for our burgers.

MM: The interior of the store I visited in Lancaster, PA was lit with fluorescent bulbs. Is this done consistently at your stores? And what other measures has Five Guys taken to minimize the restaurant's impact on the environment?

MC: Many of our stores use fluorescent bulbs (as do our corporate offices, which have the same type of lights). Our peanut oil is currently picked up by a company that uses it for various purposes, but we have researched giving/selling our used peanut oil for use in diesel cars. It is a hard process to do right now because there isn’t a national company that does that, but we have one or two stores that do give their used peanut oil to individuals who use it to power their cars. Finally, we are in the final stages of researching paper fry cups. We currently use Styrofoam, which is not as good for the environment. We hope to roll that out before the end of the year.

MM: Your organization's founder, Jerry Murrell, has been described as being “obsessed” with quality in choosing the ingredients of Five Guys' offerings. Are any of Five Guys' ingredients certified organic or antibiotic-free? If not, does Five Guys have plans to move in this direction in the future?

MC: Five Guys does not have any certified organic or antibiotic-free items. This is not necessarily intentional. Rather, “organic” and “antibiotic-free” are not synonymous with quality. You can have low quality organic items just like you can have low quality non-organic items. Our quality is focused on freshness, lack of preservatives, industry standards of quality (like peanut oil for fries) and then personal family standards. For example, we source whole heads of lettuce rather than that shredded stuff, we put 2 slices of tomatoes on a burger, and we use brand name items like Hebrew National hotdogs, Mount Olive Pickles and high quality bacon that is from a very old and established smoke house.

MM: My readers are anxious to learn what new franchise locations are planned in the southeastern Pennsylvania region: Philadelphia, Bucks, Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, Berks, and Lancaster Counties.

MC: We are opening in all of those areas although it is hard to say when as we don’t know opening dates until a few days before. My suggestion is to visit our website frequently as we add stores to the “coming soon” list every month. [Monsoon’s note: Exeter Commons Shopping Center will feature a Five Guys Burgers & Fries and a Red Robin, in addition to anchor stores Lowe’s, Giant, and Target. Rumors are swirling that a similarly-anchored shopping center planned for the area of the 222/Turnpike interchange in Denver may also attract a Five Guys!]

MM: Thank you for your time!

MC: I apologize for the delay in getting this information to you!

Monsoon

Monsoon Martin's "Five Guys": Yum! Restaurant Review

Me and my homegirls were just embarking on a leisurely day of shopping, camaraderie, and wanton double-entendre when I broached the topic of lunch. It had been decided that we would dine at the Cracker Barrel—a determination that aroused in me great excitement, for the C.B. has some of the finest burgers I have ever enjoyed: hearty and succulent without fail. As I exited the Route 30 East bypass to access the Lincoln Highway and eventually the Cracker Barrel at the Rockvale Outlets, my backseat passenger gesticulated wildly and cried out, “Five Guys!” Now, in her condition, Megan has been saying all kinds of crazy shit lately, so sometimes we just ignore her—but there was a quality to her voice that we dared not disregard.

[An important aside here: Yes, the “condition” to which I referred above is the condition of pregnancy. She has—as has been said cheerily by someone who has likely never given birth—a roomer in the womber. A bun in the oven. She’s eating for two. In fact, our petite friend has been so ravenously hungry during the first stages of her pregnancy that we have taken to calling her the Snackasaurus. So voracious and unquenchable is her appetite that she once pitifully toted a bag containing the salty, shard-like remnants of Pringles Minis to sustain her through a ten-minute faculty meeting.

Megan’s offspring, whose gender is as yet undetermined, has completed roughly one-third of his or her gestation period, and is expected to enter the world fully formed sometime in early September. Her pregnancy has thus far been an utter delight, as has she, and she has embraced her changing body and the creature’s relentless siphoning of her nutrients and energy with utter enthusiasm and composure. She was not even bothered one iota by the constant feeling of profound nausea that marked her entire first trimester. In fact, she began to welcome her daily cafeteria duty as an orgy of olfactory and aural pleasures: the smell of “tater tots and despair” (W. Greenleaf) brings only a broad smile to the glowing face of this diminutive soon-to-be mother. On more than a few occasions, we have had to ask Megan to stop singing or whistling “Zip-A-Dee-Do-Dah!” because she’s just too goddamned chipper about it all.

In all seriousness (a phrase I loathe, but I mean it, because I’m going to stop being facetious and say something sincere), we love Megan and know that she’ll get through the remainder of her pregnancy just fine. And I will be privileged to announce the birth of the child in this forum when it occurs, along with all the quantitative information that is typically demanded of such a messenger.]

That was a hell of an aside, but it’s one that needed to be made. So Megan explained that she’d been to a Five Guys restaurant in the Horsham area (near where she’s from) several times and that she found their burgers to be outstanding. Since I am on a perpetual mission to find the perfect burger (as I discussed in an earlier post), that was all I needed to hear; I cried, “I’ve never had Five Guys!”, undertook some fancy driving maneuvers and we made our way back to Five Guys.

Five Guys Burgers and Fries is a franchised establishment located at 2090 Lincoln Highway (in the East Towne Plaza) in Lancaster, across from the Howard Johnson’s. The hours of operation are straightforward, dependable, and generous: 11am to 10pm every day of the week.

When we walked in the joint, I was immediately impressed by Five Guys’ apparently absolute lack of pretension. Though it was evident from the color scheme and decorative flourishes that the restaurant was trying to evoke in its customers a sort of nostalgia for the roadside burger stands and soda fountains of a bygone era, all links to this era were made subtly: the walls were not cluttered with 1957 Chevy tail fins, 45-rpm records, or pictures of Lucille Ball and Elvis Presley. The workers were not costumed in smart, red-and-white striped shirts and white pants with little paper hats. Bill Haley and the Comets were not playing on the sound system.

Five Guys’ décor is refreshingly understated and uncluttered. The walls are decorated with the company’s signature red-and-white checkerboard pattern and posted in the windows are quotations from a variety of sources praising Five Guys’ burgers.

Two- and four-person tables with pull-out chairs are scattered throughout the clean, pleasantly-lighted (with environmentally-friendly fluorescent bulbs) seating area, which is punctuated by a few shelving units holding bulk-sized food-service containers of mayonnaise, ketchup, and other burger essentials. And no pictures of the food confront the customer, arousing in him or her unrealistic expectations about the plumpness, freshness, or presentation of the victuals that may ultimately go unrequited.

The front counter is mesmerizing in its simplicity: One orders on the left side and picks up (when called) on the right side, each of which is clearly marked. The menu—a large, clear, easy-to-read painted board suspended from the ceiling behind the counter—is an oasis of minimalism in a helter-skelter world that overwhelms us to near-paralysis with its obscenely myriad choices for the most mundane of items. The menu contains fifteen items, including famous burgers with various toppings, “little” burgers (a single, smaller patty), hot dogs with various toppings, and famous fries in regular or large size; drinks come at a fixed price, for which the customer is given a cup and set free to imbibe as much of the Coca-Cola products he or she can vend out of the self-service fountain dispenser.

(Compare this fifteen-item menu with that of Cracker Barrel, which has more than 60 items without even counting beverages or desserts; or even with Crest toothpaste, which sells 24 different products at a recent unscientific survey of two local supermarkets.)

Furthermore, there are as many toppings as menu items—ranging from mayonnaise, pickles and lettuce to jalapenos and hot sauce—and not only are they absolutely free of charge, but they are not added to the burger unless the customer asks.

(One of my pet peeves as a restaurant patron and inveterate fussypants is the wanton and careless making of assumptions by chefs and waitstaff regarding what I might want. Why is it standard practice to place a lemon wedge at the top of a glass of water? I asked for water, not lemon-flavored water with a lemon seed and some pulp floating around in it. And why have you placed my cheesecake slice on top of a bed of raspberry sauce? Such a preparation was not specified on the menu. In your chef’s ham-fisted attempts at fanciness, I am now saddled with competing flavors when endeavoring to enjoy this most sacred of desserts. I could go on.)

And finally, the detail that won my heart before I ever took a bite: between the ordering counter and seating area are stacked fifty-pound bags of potatoes that have been hand-selected for Five Guys; a small chalkboard propped up next to the counter announces the origin of the potatoes that are being used to make the fries. (During our meal, one of the staff at Five Guys actually came out, muscled one of the eight-or-so bags off the pile, and carried it back to the kitchen to be used in the making of more delicious famous fries!)

It was time to step up to the counter and make my decision. Luckily, my two dining companions made their selections before me, so I had plenty of time to peruse the menu and arrive at the most prudent course of action. Since I knew I would be reviewing the burger here, I thought basic was best: I ordered the Bacon Cheeseburger (which consists of two 3.3-pound patties, with bacon and cheese), regular-size fries, and a Coke. The grand total was a little pricey—more than $9 including tax—but far more important to me than price is value, and that would be the critical barometer.

After waiting for about six minutes for my number to be called, I was presented with a grease-stained, blank paper bag that presumably contained the food I had ordered. My dining companions and I eagerly emptied our bags, bursting with anticipation and the thrill of discovery, and unwrapped the burgers.

The Fries

Five Guys’ “famous fries” are cooked in peanut oil and have no cholesterol, according to the menu, so at least there’s that—although let’s be honest here: if you’re eating at Five Guys, you’re throwing dietary caution to the wind to a great extent. Each of us got a regular order of fries, and each of us pulled out of our bags an overflowing stand-up container about the size of a soda can. Inside the bag were many more fries—at least enough to have filled the container to about half its capacity when it had been emptied. The fries were plentiful, but were they any good?

My friends, they were magnificent. Now, if you’re looking for golden-brown fries in the fast-food tradition, or the steak fries one might find at Cracker Barrel, you will be disappointed. These fries, many of which have potato skins still attached, are crispy on the outside, and nice and chewy on the inside—kind of like the fries you might find at a carnival presented in a paper cup with a picture of fries ringing its exterior, or even at the Solanco Fair. In keeping with the Five Guys atmosphere and straightforward methodology, the fries were not seasoned with any paprika or rosemary, not sprinkled with Cajun spices, not beer-battered and honey-cured. They were sliced and expertly cooked, and presented to my grateful and welcoming palate. Below, a delirious Megan takes an approving bite of a Five Guys fry.

While conducting research for this post, I came across a review of a new Five Guys by the restaurant critic for a television news program in Charlotte, NC; it describes the almost sacrosanct process used to make the fries, and the glorious end product:

First the crew blanches the prepared potatoes by dipping them into a pot of boiling water for a minute or so and then rinsing them with an ice water bath. The blanching process removes any excess water from the potato, which results in a more golden and crispier outside edge to the fried potato. After blanching, the preboiled potatoes are allowed to rest. Next, potatoes are deep-fried to order in 100 percent peanut oil. The end result is what many refer to as “boardwalk fries,” long but thick-cut potatoes that are crispy on the outside with the soft, warm consistency of a baked potato on the inside.

The Beverages

As noted above, the self-service fountain dispenser offers an impressive array of Coca-Cola products. I had regular Coca-Cola and found it to be outstanding in the freshness of its ingredients and the proper admixture of its component parts: not too much fizz, not too much syrup. Below, Wendi signals her enthusiastic approval of her beverage.

The “free refills” feature was well appreciated, too, as copious amounts of liquids were needed to wash down all the delectable meat and potatoes I’d consumed—but then, I’m getting ahead of myself.

The Burger

It was time for my first bite of a Five Guys burger—a moment that was captured for posterity by Megan and appears in the photograph below.

If it is indeed possible to feel love for one’s lunch—if genuine affection can develop between a man and his sustenance, even as he consumes it—then I loved this burger. (There, I’ve said it!) It brought me intense gratification while I knew it; it held wondrous surprises; I was disappointed when it came to an end; and I suffered no ill effects from the relationship. It was, in two words, gustatory perfection.

Allow me to describe the assembly of the burger from the bottom up, since I am fond of the notion of proletarian revolution. First, the bottom of the lightly-grilled bun (which I will describe later); then, the bacon, which was crisp and fresh; then, a hamburger patty; then liberally applied cheese slices; then another hamburger patty; then still more cheese; and the masterpiece was finished off by the lightly-grilled bun-top. The location of the bacon underneath the patties—as well as the presence of the cheese in between as well as on top of the patties—were agreeable variations and showed real ingenuity while working within the confines of acceptable burger construction.

The buns are baked by Five Guys specially for their burgers and dogs, and though I usually eschew sesame seed rolls, this one caused me no consternation whatsoever. In fact, Megan observed that one almost does not really notice the bun—which is, I think, one of the signs of an outstanding hamburger roll. It exists to protect the diner’s hands from becoming soiled with cheese and hamburger grease and to contribute the mildest starchy note to finish off the symphony of flavor; but if it is noticed readily, it means either that it’s too thick, too unwieldy, or that is has impertinently asserted itself too insistently, subsuming the burger-intake process.

I was carried away by a harmonious blend of burgerlicious taste sensations: the sliced cheese, its edges poking out the four sides of the round bun, melted just enough to coat the burger patties with savory goodness; the burger itself was well-done but still gratifyingly juicy; the bacon was crisp, flavorful, and in generous supply; and as mentioned above, the bun pulled it all together unobtrusively but most assuredly. And of no small concern to a persnickety clean-freak like me, despite its juiciness, burger grease and/or cheese did not drip once from the bottom of the burger when I took a bite—unlike, say, Cracker Barrel.

As described on the store’s menu, website, and in various interviews with the store’s founders, Five Guys uses fresh—“never frozen”—ground beef in an 80-20 mix (that’s 80% lean USDA Grade A beef), which is hand-formed into patties each morning by the store’s staff. There is no skimping on the ingredients or toppings at Five Guys, and its founder has what has been described as a “fanatical” approach to the quality of foods—buns, cheese, potatoes, hamburger, etc.—that make up his finished products.

Founded in 1986 in Arlington, VA by Janie and Jerry Murrell, Five Guys began with the simple premise that if they did one thing, and did it well, people would come. The straightforwardness of its business approach is crystallized in Five Guys’ elegantly stated mission: “We are in the business of selling burgers.” By extension, they’re not in the business of creating a holistic dining experience; they’re not in the business of offering a staggering array of unnecessary choices; they’re not in the business of including cheap plastic crap from the latest Disney movie in their meals. They’re in the business of selling burgers. (The grace, the uncomplicated conviction of that statement damn near makes me want to cry.)

Five Guys—named after the Murrells’ five sons Jim, Matt, Chad, Ben and Tyler, whose ages now range from early twenties to early forties and all of whom have all been involved in the family business to one degree or another—had expanded to five family-run locations in the DC-northern Virginia region by 2002. Shortly thereafter, Five Guys decided to franchise and today there are more than 200 franchises operating in 23 states—mostly on the east coast—with hundreds more franchisees planning to open additional locations in the next two years. In short, Five Guys is planning to take the culinary world by storm.

In this area, Five Guys can be enjoyed at locations in Allentown, Bala Cynwyd, Harrisburg, Philadelphia (at 1527 Chestnut Street), York, and of course Lancaster. According to Megan, who has had Five Guys many times in the Horsham area, the quality is consistently outstanding from one location to another.

Five Guys Burgers and Fries makes one of the two or three best hamburgers I have ever had the pleasure to send down my gullet. As we left the restaurant, quite satiated, we noticed a corkboard by the door with index cards onto which patrons could record their comments and impressions of the place. So overcome by the experience was I that all I could muster—nattering, long-winded wordsmith that I am—was: “Yum!”

“I took all that Five Guys had to offer,” I said on my way out to the car, “and I’m definitely coming back for more!” Next time, I’ve got a hankering to try their hot dogs.

Monsoon

[A concluding note: in my mission to find the perfect burger, I would welcome your tips as to where—within a reasonable radius of northern Lancaster County, maybe 40 miles—I might next visit to continue in this quest. Feel free to drop me an email and let me know about your perfect burger.]